has a problem on the issue like guns that harry reid is not sitting up champing at the bit to do gun legislation coming out of the senate, by the way. so -- >> but the american public, michael, is he. >> well, we know what the american public wants and what the united states senate and congress wants is sometimes two different things. that's the point. the president is trying to triangulate these interests to put his agenda out there to put the republicans on the defense to cobble together what he needs from the democrats to get something done. meanwhile we still have unemployment at 7.9% and 22 million american unemployed. >> michael, you don't have and the president doesn't have but i have a jobs program. rebuild america. big time. we do it in our ads. it's called lean forward. >> but how does he do it when -- >> 3% interest rate right now. you can borrow the money at practically nothing to get the job done. >> that's right. >> try to get the loan, chris. try to get the loans. >> you get a 30-year loan at 3% would have no impact on the deficit. >> you do that and see what happens.